Fritz: All Fritz/All Fritz.zip/All Fritz/FILES/EDUCUAGE/MOKE1.LZH/JJ27APR.ZOO/jj27apr/fj.soc.culture_120_000008.msg

Internet Message Format | 1990-04-27 | 13KB

Path: mtfuji!ccut!sun-barr!apple!agate!e260-3c.Berkeley.EDU!c60c-3cf
From: [e-mail] (Dan Kogai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,fj.soc.culture
Subject: Some Lessons for America (on Tom Clancy's "Some Lessons for Japan")
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Apr 90 08:27:53 GMT
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Followup-To: soc.culture.japan
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Xref: mtfuji fj.soc.culture:120


In article <[e-mail]> mark edwards ([e-mail])
said:

>  When the selling country continues to have a $45 - $50 billion dollar
> surplus while destroying major industries of the buying country or buying
> them in part or outright it gets to become a problem. Let me say again
> that it is $45 - $50 billion dollar, thats 45 with 9 zeros
>
>   (45,000,000,000)
>
>  this has been going on for around 10 years at that level, longer at lower
>  levels.  30 percent of Japan's exports come to the U.S. Selling in the U.S.
>  is a piece a cake, buying U.S. companies is also a piece of cake. It has
>  been said that when Japan goes a shopping in the U.S. it is like being
>  in a CANDY store, I'll take two of theses, half of this, 10 of these ...
>  Japanese companies love joint ventures, they generally learn all they
>  can from the company, take all the technology and give nothing in return.

    First of all, the 45-with-9-digit buck is what America willing to pay
for Japanese--they didn't steal.  That's just a result of America's favorite
Market Economy--they simply bought what they wanted to buy.  It just happened to
be the Japanese who made what Americans ask for--not America also has shit load
of trade deficit to other countries.  And recent increase of trade deficit is
not due to Japanese export but steep price of Mid-East oil.  Second of all Those
deficit is created by only handful of Japanese in key-industry.  You take out
automobile, you take out computers, you take consumer electronics and Japan gets
trade deficit agains the U.S.  Third of all they didn't destroy a single major
industry in the U.S.--they just quit by themselves.  That's not Japan who laid
off Detroit workers.  Big Shots of Big 3 did.  They even urged Japan that they
sell MORE cars for themselves when Japan accepted VOLUNTARY QUOTA of export of
automobile.  And where the hell Iacocca, Smith, and Petersen are?  Still on the
top of chair and making millons of bucks after laying off workers like left-over
meal in the refregirator.  You picked wrong guy to blame.

>    Americans in Japan however have a much harder time. And it ain't because
>  they don't try, like some would have you believe (Japanese press, ...).
>  And look how hard T. Boone Pickens is trying just to get a small piece of
>  the Koito Company in Japan. To get anywhere in Japan you have to be Rambo
>  tough and then sometimes you don't even get the backing of your own
>  government.

    Oh year?  Then how do you explain IBM makes twice as big plofit than
Fujitsu and pays twice as much tax to Japanese government?  Not only are
American companies are crutial for Japan but also they are making profits.  It's
just that they don't shout they are successful like losers.  Those successful in
Japan knows it's no good to speak in favor of Japan.  They like Japan but more

>  In the U.S. the consumer is king, while in Japan the Company is king.
>  The new issue of Business Week points out that with more and more
>  Japanese going abroad and finding everywhere cheaper then Japan, they
>  be start a raising questions. Japanese products made in Japan are
>  even cheaper else where. Gee, now explain that, accounting for shipping
>  costs "across the WIDE PACIFIC OCEAN", custom fees, shipping in the U.S,
>  etc....

    I agree.  But you forgot one important thing.  Japan can buy anything
from ANYWHERE.  And it's not necessariry from the U.S. they buy from.  I would
rather go to Hong Kong, too, to buy AMERICAN STUFFS cheaper.  You got to
understand the more cocky the U.S. behaves the less Japan trust the U.S.,
causing them to buy less.  See what happened the U.S. set embargo of wheat
against Soviet Union.  Soviets just simply bought from Argentina.  Farmars cried
for stopping it.  And also consider while Japanese considers no American cars
are not both buying, German cars are their favorite and these days BMWs and
Mercedes sells like potetos in Japan.  Germans considered Japanese as customers.
Americans considered Japan as an enemy (What enemy who tries to save big
three!).  Look who won.

>  Japan prefers to protect up and coming industries, and the very mature
>  or dying industries. Why is Japan building a FSX themselves when they
>  could buy American Fighters jets for less then half the cost of the FSX?
>  The Japanese government and companies know how to play Washington. The
>  American businessses don't get the same break as the Japanese busineses.

    Because here again America considers Japan as an enemy--Japanese know
America won't sell the key parts of those weapons--they are the only contry who
bought F-15 from the U.S. among OECD nations (Other two are Isreal and Saudi
Arabia).  They couldn't get avionics so they had to make up their own.  Now
F-15J, Japanese implementation of Eagle has better avionics than original F-15J.
If the price really counts, why don't they suggest Uncle Sam to buy Migs and
Sukhois--they are cheaper, aren't they?

>   Morita's a business man who doesn't follow what he preaches. He bad mouths
>   U.S. business for the mergers and acquistions, while buying out CBS records
>   and Columbia Pictures for CASH.

    How about Ausie Rupert Murdoch (He recently got Green Card but he's
still Austrarian) bought even larger 20th Century Fox?  And which one do you
think the better combination, Coca-Cola, the previous owner of Columbia who
makes something little to do with movies, and Sony, key producer of hardware to
make movies and TV programs?

>:worst student in history, I at least know who started the War is not
>:that simple a question. Most major countries then were not that
>:peace-loving, I guess.
>
>  Hmm, so this justifies the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

    Hmm, so that justifies blowing Dresden, Hanover, Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
I don't know how to justify war but I think Japan paid price for war at least to
the U.S. (I think not yet for East Asian countries).  Japan never had military
conflict after she lost THE WAR.  And they won't dare do it again (Even Ishihara
woudn't).  How many time did the U.S. involved in military conflict since WWII?
Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Lybia, and Panama.  I think I omitted some but enough
is said.  More of all, that's Americans more than Japanese who got kidnapped.

>  A trade war is sometimes the last resort. The issue is not being number
>  one forever it is surviving. So far the costs have been great, consumer
>  electronics, machine tools, the Automobile industry, or the semiconductor
>  industry are in great disrepair, the computer industry, and just about
>  everything else may be next.

    You are right.  But you got to understand trade war is not like Axis vs
Allies, Commes vs Freedom Fighters per se.  Japan was once world's biggest ship
maker.  Now Koreans takes this place.  Taiwan assembles more personal computers
than Japan.  Big 3 buys Japanese cars and Honda Accord sold in East US will be
Made in U.S. legitimately this year.  Clancy theory is as obsolete and false as
Geocentrism in this arena.

>  The Americans are still being generous, however when the guest starts
>  destroying your house, you can put up with it for a while but eventually
>  you start reprimanding him, and eventually you must either kick him
>  out or your house will be destroyed completely. You can also liken it
>  to a baby (my daughter is 7 months old now). At first the baby is all
>  cute and everything, can't take care of itself, is grabby, breaks things,
>  tears things up, spits up, etc, etc. It does grow though, and after a
>  few years you expect the baby to behave better, to share things, to
>  grow up. Eventually the baby becomes an adult, and the things that
>  were acceptable as a baby are no longer acceptable.

    So is Japanese.  At least Japanese haven't killed German mistaken as
American unlike American killed Vincent Chin the night before his wedding
mistaking he is a Japanese.  At least Americans shold learn how to identiry
Japanese if they ever want to attack them.

>  If you want to sell to a country you also must be willing to buy from
>  the company. And believe it or not there are some American products
>  that are better than Japanese products, and the Japanese consumer
>  would buy them if they had a choice. The problem is that they don't
>  have a choice. The japanese tourists travel abroad and bring back
>  lots of things to Japan that they can not get in Japan. They even
>  buy Japanese made products which cost much more in Japan and bring
>  them back to Japan.

    I've already responded this remark--give them choice and let them buy
Germans and NIESes instead.  They are already buying more than any ohter
countries except Canada, the U.S. neighbor.

>  Tom Clancy was providing an answer that may be naive but he is right
>  in that there is a problem. Of course the Japanese style of competition
>  is not the only problem here. Education, budget deficits, drugs, and
>  many other things all contribute to the American situation.

    I've already responded this one too.  Clacy logic won't work.  Japan is
not the only one who you might call "enemy".  There are NIES coming up.  EC
unification is just 2 years away.  Big 3 want more Japanese Cars.  Japanese
companies want to be more American.

>  And it now appears that Super 301 will have to be followed by Super
>  duper 301, because the promises that were given to cool Congress
>  probably will be as empty as before. If only Congress would
>  remember that these same promises were given the last time and
>  the time before that, on exactly some of the same issues. Ya got
>  to hand it to the Japanese negotiators they sure know how to
>  negotiate. We could learn a few lessons from them.

    Super 301 might have worked if Americans really got together and tried
to push back Japanese giants.  But what happened to US Memory?  Now it's a
memory.  America has to heal its wounds before it tries to give Japan a scratch.
    And while Congress is busy thinking of the most sensational Japan
bashing, local governments are thinking the best way to welcome Japanese
industry--California stopped unitary tax because it concluded that it will elode
Japanese firms out of states.  In that respect Congress no longer represents The
United States.
    U.S. had to do two things if they really want to beat Japan.  First it
has to raise the bottom up--Top is already top of the world.  I couldn't find
better education than here in Berkeley in Japan.  And American rich beats hell
out of Japanese rich.  But look on the street and see what is happening--more
racial conflict, more homeless, more drug addicts and more criminals.  This
looks quite like the last days of Roman Empire.  But Fall of Roman Empire is
nothing compared to Fall of America because it embraces more people.  Falling of
Empire is no big problem if there's no one to suffer.  But there are quater
billon people to suffer and more likely the poor will suffer more.
    Second could be part of ther first but this is very impotant.  Learn
more about Japan.  I'm not suggesting to mimic Japan--it's impossible.  But you
got to understand rival if you ever want to beat him, don't you?  Biggest
difference between Americans and Japanese is that the Japanese know more about
America than Americas know about Japan.  How can you defeat Japan while only 33%
of American High School kids can point where Japan is?  Japan is no Boogie Man
or Zombie that could be fought off buy a hero.  Japan is real. And you got to
know Japan to deal with real Japan.  The picture Clancy gave was as accurate as
Columbus explained America.  Columbus thought he found Japan.  And I found
America thinks they found Japan while what they really found was itself.


===============================================================================
/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\        Dan The "Only an egg who groks little" Man
+ ____  __  __   +        (Aka Dan Kogai)
+     ||__||__|  +        E-mail:  [e-mail]
+ ____| ______   +        Voice:   415-549-6111
+ |     |__|__|  +        USnail:  1730 Laloma Berkeley, CA 94709
+ |___  |__|__|  +                  U.S.A
+     |____|____ +
+   \_|    |     + #define circular(x) reference(x)
+ <= THE MAN  => + #define reference(x) circular(x)
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  printf("%s\n", circular(reference("All I say is false")));
===============================================================================
--